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Mom is always in pain it seems and asks for her pain pills all the time. She moans a groans and always says she hurts. She is always asking me to get her coffee and food, etc. because it is hard for her to walk. Well - the other day she had a visitor that mentioned that she needed to go to an assisted living situation (which is in progress). Mom suddenly got up and walked around without her cane and was in no pain and told her friend "let's go shopping". It was like her whole personality changed. As soon as they left, she went back to her moaning and groaning. Is this normal? Has she been taking advantage of my help this whole time?

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I would say based on this scenario, yes she has. If she can go shopping with a friend she has been enjoying being queen for the day, for months.
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Rogerwyatt7890 May 15, 2024
Yeah I was pretty angry. I took off today for about an hour to run errands and when I got back she was in the kitchen making a sandwich. She has never done that before. From now on I will just tell her to make her own lunch. SOOOO frustrating.
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Are they prescription meds (opioids)? If so, maybe she is addicted?

She could be showtiming:
https://coping.today/what-does-showtime-mean/
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Rogerwyatt7890 May 15, 2024
No opioids just antidepressants and gabapentin which I monitor.
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It's hard to tell with dementia, Roger.
I would say it is "more likely" to be not faking, but imagining. And I would say that the mention of assisted living would likely tend to get one moving again, almost on a subconscious level.

We none of us can do anything but guess about the workings of the human mind, other than to say that whether we are demented or we are not, we are ever a "mystery".

As to this "taking advantage" you might want to speak to someone in PT and OT or just goggle a lot about "maintaining independence" in seniors. Sometimes for caregivers whether dealing with kids or elders it just becomes "easier" to "do it for them" or "get it for them". It is hard to insist that they get up for that glass of water, but the good it will do the joints, the muscles, the tendons and in helping the bones to stay healthy is enormous.

Often just a walk somewhere they love--for me bookshop or junk shop, can get them moving, get their minds off the aches and pains. But trust me at 81 going rapidly on 82, there ARE aches and pains for certain.
Do know also that many medications for pain are notorious for bringing on "rebound pain".

Your question is a big one, to be sure. Just doubt it has one certain answer. But is great food for thought.
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Rogerwyatt7890 May 15, 2024
For the last 6 months I have been here she has always used a walker or a cane to ambulate but not when her friend was here LOL. Just makes me wonder. Thanks for your input. They are so much like children in a way. When I catch her eating something she is not supposed to she literally acts like a child that got caught in the cookie jar.
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Yes, of course people with dementia can "fake it" and even stage falls and other "emergencies" to get attention. I have seen this many, many times. A person can have dementia and not be so far gone that they can't plan and carry something out. I call this behavior "performances" and my friend, I've saw this show for 25 years.

Often on this forum I will tell a poster who is dealing with the caregiving of a needy senior with or without dementia to not play the person's attention-seeking games.

I had a care client years ago who used to stage "falls". Then she'd call me in hysterics that she needed help and like a fool, I'd go running. I was new in this line of work but caught on quick. The next time she had a "fall" I told her I would call the paramedics for her and her out-of-town daughter. She begged me not to and said if only I could just come. I did not go to her again but called the paramedics and her daughter anyway. She never staged another fall or called me again with an "emergency" because I stopped playing her get attention game. She knew what she was doing.

My mother has been doing the practiced invalid game for decades. It gets her nowhere. She tries it out on some people and when she doesn't get the desired outcome from them she will try with others and that usually fails also. Some people crave pity from others. They like others to feel sorry for them and they want to be 'babied' by someone.

Oh, hell no. You don't 'baby' an adult. If said adult is so far gone with dementia that they have regressed back into being a baby, they belong in a nursing home.

Don't play your mother's games. Encourage others not to either. A person's independence is the most important thing in the world and sometimes there needs to be some tough love to help a person retain the highest level of independence they can. Not being waited on or 'babied' might make someone angry at you. They may even grow to dislike and even hate you, but making a person do for themselves where they can and not pitying them is always the best thing for them.
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Rogerwyatt7890 May 15, 2024
I agree totally. She does play a lot of games and I'm tired of it. She had told me she hates me many times. She was walking around and just being normal when the friend told her she needs to go to assisted living. That is when Mom got angry and kind of told her off. I think this is why other siblings want nothing to do with her. She is a bipolar sociopath. I love her dearly and that's why I took on this horrible experience but in the long run I hope I can look back and say I did my best. Thanks so much.
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Honestly it's possible that she isn't faking and just got a good spirt of adrenaline because she was happy to have a friend visit.

Dementia is so odd, there is sometimes no time or reason for the things they do.

I heard my mom and brother have a very intelligent interesting conversation where she sounded completely coherent, and I get..... Well I don't get that anyways.

But it could also have a lot to do with her mentally at the time. Like I play boccie on a team in the summer. Some days it's hot, I'm like omg there is no way I'm going to be able to play tonight, how am I going to get though this? Then I go , forget the heat , play my heart out and kick a$&. Forget all about the heat. The brain can do some crazy things. Her brain is saying I can't... Like mine on those missurable hot boccie days.

I'm not sure if that helps at all but it's a thought of what may be going on
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Rogerwyatt7890 May 15, 2024
Never heard of Boccie. Good for you to get out there and have fun and exercise and get your mind off stuff.
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Yes. Example: My mother said she was suffering terribly. So weak. So much pain. Couldn’t walk. Totally helpless. Needed both me and my husband to do everything for her that day. Then a neighbour drove up and she got up, tossed the cane and scampered over to the car. We were gobsmacked.

We started photo-documenting to help get her into a care home. (she showtimed so well she even talked her way out of a suicide psych hold)

We were so frustrated and resentful,

People think of dementia as loss of memory and loss of skills. We found it removed my mother’s filter such that she would say or do anything in order to get what she wanted when she wanted it.
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Rogerwyatt7890 May 15, 2024
So true. They are manipulative. I'm not falling for it anymore. If she can walk around without her cane and make her own lunch why am I here helping 24/7. My grandson came over on mother's day and said Gramma I really miss you, please come back home. It was so hard to just not leave.
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Thisvis how I look at Dementia. They end up becoming like children. When I child falls and scrapes their leg, you might think they are dying. Same with a person with Dementia. Andvlike a child, they push boundaries to see what they can get away with. And the person they play, is the Caregiver. After Mom said "lets go shopping" to her friend and then when they left she fell back into her "oh poor me"...you should have said "seems funny you had no aches and pains while friend was here and you could go shopping. Seems Mom you can do more than u have lead me to believe.

Your new to this and there is a learning curve. I may just hide a camera to see just how much Mom doesvfor herself when ur gone. Then show it to her.
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BurntCaregiver May 19, 2024
Don't play the games.
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My Mom was a mess for years - Was Not connecting the dots at all - She was in a rehab for the summer and didnt knowledge I was in the room But Played Starlet to all the others that Visited her room - it was Like a show . She also has Multiple operations for attention . Lots of dysfunctional stuff . Would expect me to walk her dog twice a day while I am Looking for a apartment . I did not connect the dots - wish I Knew what I Know now . She did this crazy singing and crying routine and no one knew what to do ? Everyone Lived in Different states so no One was on top of what she was going through . She Knew how to fool people But eventually it all caught up with her and she was in 2 Nursing homes for the summer in 2014 . At That Point I Knew something was wrong . She was Hoarding and the fire department condemned her apartment and Made her Move to another apartment where she greatly declined . She was Not a Bad woman . I didnt Know if Half the time she was telling stories or what she was telling me was real ? Anyway people can be Like chameleons and change suddenly . Your Mother is definitely getting your attention and it is a form of control and Manipulation .
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BurntCaregiver May 19, 2024
@KNance

Your mother sounds very much like mine right down to the crying and singing routine.

She would and does do the exact same thing. When I was a child when she'd start up with the crying and singing nonsense that was kind if scary. Then she'd follow it up by viciously lashing out at me. She'd keep that bullying and berating up until she got what she wanted which was to see me in tears and exploding with anger.

When I was a teenager her histrionics didn't scare me anymore. She'd only go so far with me because I think there was some fear there. I wasn't a little kid anymore and there might be a different reaction. I pretty much just ignored this nonsense or left. That's what I do now. The crying and singing and behaving like a lunatic is an act. It's for attention. I am the wrong person to try that with. My mother also enjoyes fabricating the occassional health crisis requiring a trip to the ER. Like the time years ago I was going to be in my friend's wedding. She's from a big Indian family and they do it up. I was literally bringing my luggage to the car and my mother started up with the chest pains, shortness of breath, some crying and singing. Then came the could I just take her to the ER. Well, no because I had several flights to catch. There was nothing wrong with her. I was super excited about the wedding and she wanted to ruin it for me. She was not successful. It was a once-in-a-lifetime experience.

I don't play the attention-seeking games. Not with care clients and not with family. No one ever should.
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Get a Blood Pressure monitor. Get a base reading. When Mom complains about pain, take her blood pressure, it should be elevated if the pain is bad.
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waytomisery May 21, 2024
My mother would hold her breath and cross her legs to make her blood pressure go up on purpose . 🙄🙄
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She Might Be addicted to the Pain Pills . my Mom Got addicted to Xanax and after she Passed she had 3 doctors writing her scripts for Xanax which is why she could sleep all day and Night . Eventually I do believe this is what caused her dementia and the Pills destroyed her Intestines . Sorry Roger But it sounds Like you are her slave .
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I am not sure what stage or how advance her dementia is but the experience I had with my dad was that he had pain but not all the time. He was always, incessantly complaining about back pain but then I realized I was asking the wrong questions. Instead of asking if he was in pain, I started asking ....."is your back hurting right now?" More often than not I would get the reply ..."no it does not hurt right now, but when it does ugghhhh...." I would suggest you change your questions, and it is going to be trial and error. Could it be she forgot she took the meds earlier?

I like to believe that it was not malicious or intentional, it was, for him, just the brain and cognition deteriorating.
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Can dementia cause imaginary pain?

Finally, mental pain can be exasperated by dementia. Patients may experience significant loss or grief, even when confused or disoriented. This can lead to social, spiritual or emotional pain, which is felt physically like other types of pain.

Mother needs to be assessed by a physician.

Gena / Touch Matters
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BurntCaregiver May 25, 2024
@Touch

I think you're right. A person with dementia may be similar to a hypochondriac and imagine that they're in pain and theres something terribly wrong when in reality there is nothing wrong.
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Your mom sounds like mine. She DOES have arthritis but she acts like she is dying sometimes. She lives with me and when she thinks I’m sleeping she can walk up and down the stairs fine…slowly but fine. If I’m awake she will moan and groan so loudly it’s crazy! I told her I was going to contact someone to put in a stair lift and she said she would refuse to use it 🙄. The other day she ‘hurt’ her knee, refused to see a doctor but needed to use her cane. At times though she forgets and walks fine without her cane. Most of the time I just don’t respond to her complaining. It seems mostly to try and get attention. I feel bad but I cannot feed into it or I will go crazy myself.
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caring4kin May 24, 2024
I feel your pain, AmyInPA! My mother does the same thing! Such a lot of effort into faking pain, but as soon as we are out of the room we can see on the monitor she is walking fine, picking up things, no groaning or wincing or holding onto the cabinets. If it wasn't so frustrating it might actually be funny...
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My daddy did this all the time. Its called showtiming - see definition:

'Show Timing', sometimes referred to as 'host/hostess mode', is when a person with dementia can display lucid and coherent behavior in front of medical professionals, in other words act as their 'normal selves', but be confused and lost around loved ones or caregivers.

She most likely is in pain. But as someone else has written try the blood pressure method and if she is in real pain her blood pressure will rise. If you have to give a placebo to satisfy her to see if that works - yes I did say that! We can only try things it is all a trial and error disease! A prayer was said for you today!
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caring4kin May 24, 2024
My mother does this. We always check her BP to see if her pain level is impacting her BP. The other day she took her BP cuff to her adult day care medical center to tell them her BP cuff wasn't working because she was in pain and the cuff was reporting her BP as low.

She is a life-long narcissist with mild to moderate dementia.
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My husband’s grandmother was a master at embellishing the facts.

One time she told me that her hair was hurting! I said, ‘Do you mean that your scalp hurts?’ She specifically said that it was her hair!

I told her that hair was dead and it was impossible for it to be hurting her. Well, I was wasting my time and energy because she insisted that her hair hurt her.

She didn’t have dementia. She was just crazy 😝!
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If she is on an opioid for pain her brain is telling her there's pain.As for the showtiming it is common with dementia and it's kind of like when you just finished yelling at your kids and someone knocks on the door and you put on a ☺
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Rogerwyatt7890: Anything is possible with "end stage dementia" imo.
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I was told by my PTSD Therapist that my mother was not faking; I still believe she is most of the time. She was the main caregiver for her father and I see a lot of the traits he had in her now. She refused to let anyone but me watch him, etc. I was told she now has the mind of a 5 year old and does this stuff to get attention. I do my best to ignore her hoping she'll get it through her head that it is not working. She's constantly moaning and groaning about something. Today she accused my SO of throwing a paper in her face and called him a female dog. He does so much for her...fixes her meals on wheels so I don't have to deal with her. Puts her rollator in and out of the car so I don't have to do any lifting, but she won't see that. It's easier for her to cuss us out then to take responsibility for her actions. When she starts, I want to turn her over my knee.
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BurntCaregiver May 25, 2024
@uarew6

It might be time to consider placing her in an appropriate care facility that can meet her needs.

Tell your SO that it's okay for him to put her in her place when she's being disrespectful to him. Tell her to shut the hell up when she's acting up. No one has to live with abuse whether it's dementia-related or not.
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My mother with dementia and lifelong narcissism could showtime and also was very manipulative . The doctor told me she was capable of both .

So yes , your mom could be faking at times .
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Finley12 May 24, 2024
My mom also has NPD along with dementia. Recently she had cataract surgery and we’ve been back and forth to the eye doctor several times with complaints. Every time we go to check with the eye doctor there is nothing wrong besides her dry eye which we’re addressing. I'm not sure if she’s faking or she doesn’t cope with any discomfort now.

The struggle with dementia mixed with NPD is extremely difficult. 🥴
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If people without dementia "fake it" so can those with dementia. However, pain is whatever a person says it is. Better to offer outings and activities the other person finds enjoyable to see how much pain they have and pain meds are needed. After trialing this for several times, you'll have a better understanding of the true needs.
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For us, I don’t think they fake it, I think it’s more like “they forgot they said it and now it doesn’t hurt anymore”
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NeedHelpWithMom May 24, 2024
Good point.

Some people aren’t faking pain because they have acute pain, rather than chronic pain.

I think it comes down to knowing the particular situation and the individual who is experiencing pain or perhaps faking their pain.

My mother was never a chronic complainer, before or after dementia. Whenever she mentioned pain, it was real for her.

Plus, Mom’s dementia was mild. Advanced dementia is more challenging to deal with.

She had rotator cuff and knee issues. Both are genuinely painful. Unfortunately, she wasn’t a candidate for surgery due to her advanced age.

At times, UTIs created unusual behavior for my mom.

I didn’t know that urinary tract infections caused this kind of behavior. It was quite interesting for me to learn this was common in the elderly.
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Dementia is a brain disease. I suspect that it will confuse those pain receptors as well. It is weird to see someone doubled in pain one minute and laughing with friends the next. You will begin to think that maybe our loved ones or patients are faking their symptoms.

I'm not a doctor or shrink, and I'm not going to negate any symptoms that someone is feeling. If the pain feels real to them, this is all that matters. I'm learning through everyone's experience here that anything goes. I don't need to argue, correct or get overly concerned with these behaviors unless there is an actual emergency.
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NeedHelpWithMom May 24, 2024
I think this makes sense.

Look at how placebos work for certain people.

I totally agree with not arguing.

They will just double down on their stance and no one will get through to them anyway.

Scampi,

You are smart enough to know that you will be talking to a brick wall, if you try to have a rational conversation with a person who has advanced dementia.

Plus, you have experience with dementia symptoms, so it isn’t puzzling to you.
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