Is it normal for the family's POA to have more than one bank account related to parent with dementia finances?
We are aware that the POA for our parent with dementia has more than one bank account regarding her finances. In the past, the POA advised us to do this practice.
For the POAs is this common practice and if so, what is the benefit of it? My parent, I will call Sally, for her primary bank account set it up so the POA and another adult child had access to it years ago once they developed cognitive challenges. At least the second adult child can monitor this primary account.
With the extra bank accounts, no one can monitor them except the bank. It appears the reverse mortgage against the house is going into one of these "hidden" bank accounts.
I read in one forum that someone discovered after their parent died the POA had multiple hidden bank accounts.
Should our family be concerned regarding these secondary accounts? The POA was transparent previously about creating them which is a good sign.
Thanks for advice and have a great day.
7 Answers
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Thank you for posting the following.
“Thank you for your advice. The POA is very hard to approach, He has a history of threatening and harassing family members. Hearing how hard it is to be POA, I sense he might have some burnout. Thanks so much for people sharing their experience and for all you have done and do for your loved ones. It helps me understand POA better.”
The POA does sound like he has some burnout and perhaps some decline of his own. I think many people would ask strangers rather than someone who threatens and harasses. You sound like a reasonable person to me. I am glad our comments helped.
However, I wouldn’t want to give you a false sense of security. If the POA is also the caregiver, know that a parent with dementia can sometimes live a very long time and the caregiver burn to a crisp. Do a little reading on RM and know that they have pretty strict rules. The home has to be maintained, taxes paid etc., or the note can be called. If you truly believe things are not quiet right and interactions with the POA give you concern that he is not well or parent not being cared for then you can contact the Adult Protective Services (APS) and ask them to check on things. But do that as a last resort as it would just be one more thing for an already tired caregiver to deal with.
If someone else is the caregiver and is the one whose name is on the one bank account, then hopefully that person is being properly compensated with a contract and the POA is not withholding funds for necessary resources.
Try to be supportive of the caregiver and POA. Satisfy yourself that your parent is being cared for and stay on the forum as you will learn a good deal to inform your impression of how things are going for the POA, the caregivers) and your parent.
Why not ask the POA rather than a bunch of random internet users who have no idea why multiple accounts are necessary?
After they died I learned of accounts I didn't know about. They didn't turn up for almost a year due to a family member who concealed them but finally spit them up. Since I was executor, it was my job to close all and distribute the money. So I did. It took five years.
I'd advise anyone managing accounts for anyone else to do it to the letter of the law. Also, keep info about every account in a safe place where it will be easily found. My parents didn't do that, and it created a mess for me to untangle.
The POA is in charge of assuring order in the finances.
A good reason I can see to remove most of the money from an account such as you mentioned, that has another child on the account also, is to take that account OUT OF CONTROL of that third party. The POA has a right to protect his "principal's" finances--knowledge of finances, from random others and family members.
I was POA and Trustee for my brother. He had a beloved ex partner who was a bit dotty due to alcoholic encephalopathy. His name was on several CDs as POD. That's fine. But was also on a checking account he could have dabbled in at any time. He was left with almost nothing in that account and I moved the majority of funds from it to another CD. When CDs came due I still kept him, as my brother had wishes him to be, beneficiary on those designated.
The POA is in charge.
If someone in the family has reason to suspect that the POA is operating out of nefarious or self=-enriching activities, or not keeping proper records (mind you no one has access to those records) then the person with proof of said activities or reasons to suspect the POA should retain an attorney. If, after discussion with that attorney there is agreement there is proof or reason enough to call the POA before the court the attorney YOU hire will file a case. The POA will then be called before the court to prove he/she is doing his/her Fiduciary Duty to the standards of the law.
When my brother passed he did INDEED have various accounts. His Trust account into which his SS was deposited and all bills paid, a personal account he wanted for himself so he could gift people, do shopping, withdraw money to go to movies and out to lunch and etc (I lived at other end of our state). A small account in which ex had co-ownership, and out of which most money was removed to a CD. Multiple CDs with various people as POD or in the name of the trust. My brother remained, until his death of sepsis, able to direct me as far as his wishes even given his Lewy's dementia, and I agreed with and took his direction. He got a monthly accounting from me which he kept in a binder. That was not something I could have nor would have shared with others, but something I would have been proud to set before a court.
“ In the past, the POA advised us to do this practice”.
So what was the reasoning at that time?
Why do you not trust the POA now? Is it because you found out about the accounts w/o the POA telling you and that is making them suspect?
Is the home in disrepair, are the workers not being paid, is the POA’s health in decline? Do you have a reason to believe the POA is not acting in good faith?
I can think of a few legitimate reasons there might be multiple bank accounts. Just as easily there could be fraud. It’s difficult to comment beyond generalities with such limited information. Normal number of bank accounts would be subjective to the individuals circumstances and needs. There is certainly nothing prohibiting there being multiple bank accounts.
I will say that as a POA for my loved ones, I was always concerned about stretching the savings to ensure sufficient funds to pay for care for their lifetime. I tried to limit the amount in an active checking account to protect against misuse of a debit card etc. I used one account for large payments like taxes and insurance or major home repairs. I followed suite as to how the principal had things set up which worked very well. A POA has a great deal of power, responsibility and not much reward beyond wanting to do a good job for their loved ones and the satisfaction of having done so. They are held accountable by law. But not required to share the principals personal information. What might appear abnormal or hidden to you is not relevant unless you were a Co-POA. I would go so far as to say it is Not normal for a person (second adult child mentioned) to be on the principals account who is not a POA. More normal for the accounts to be “hidden” as it is the principals private business.
When you say no one can monitor them, surely the POA can. When you say “hidden”…hidden from you perhaps but not from the POA. If you don’t trust the POA, remember your parent selected them when they were competent to do so.
There is always an element of risk when we choose anyone to represent us. Hopefully you will find in time that your parent did a good job in choosing this POA. It was her decision to make.
There was a family member on this account that seems to be in question most here.
I would get that taken care of quick myself, as POA. Family member should not be a co-owner on an account you are managing as POA. They have access to funds they should not have access to and access to information that isn't theirs to have, imho.